tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post1328512251462206075..comments2024-03-28T06:28:49.282+00:00Comments on Picture Book Den: Increasing the chances of your picture book story being published. A quick-ish guide to getting and interpreting feedback by Juliet Clare BellUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-38294546331965224492012-05-14T09:53:58.917+01:002012-05-14T09:53:58.917+01:00Thank you, Rosalind.
I'd be delighted for you ...Thank you, Rosalind.<br />I'd be delighted for you to read them out at your next meeting. And I strongly suspect it's not just you who feels the stings! <br />I've been thinking about setting up a children's reading group where we look carefully at other published books... you've got me even closer to getting my act together to sort it out now. Thanks,<br />Clare.<br />PS I did rewrite the whole of my story with a hamster in place of the little sister. Although I resubmitted it to the editor who asked for it, it never quite worked for me -or for her. One day, I'll go back to the original and try and sort it out.Juliet Clare Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06020801246132751659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-23210738725036139262012-05-12T10:56:01.667+01:002012-05-12T10:56:01.667+01:00I belong to an amazing crit group. We meet once a ...I belong to an amazing crit group. We meet once a month to crit each other's work and once a month as a children's book group/bring-a-dish lunch group where we pull other children's writers apart and eat delicious food. All six of us are children's writers and five of us have had picture books published. In fact, one of the group is your very own lovely Pippa Goodhart so, as you can see, our wip feedback is of the very best calibre, but that doesn't make it any easier to accept or act upon it. I sometimes go home silently stinging, knowing they were right, being angry with myself for not seeing it first, not knowing quite how much of the suggested changes to act upon. [So glad you didn't change your sister into a hamster!] <br /><br />I think I might [with your permission] read your six points on 'How to make the most of the feedback you’re given' at our next crit meeting because I'm now thinking that it's possibly not just me who suffers the stings. <br /><br />Thank you for these excellent suggestions and yes, I'd love to read a similar post about how to GIVE feedback. It can be as painful as taking it... almost!Rosalind Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05363027308436257933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-26622217176065719622012-05-11T21:57:37.371+01:002012-05-11T21:57:37.371+01:00Very interesting, Lynne.
Thanks,
Clare.Very interesting, Lynne.<br />Thanks, <br />Clare.Juliet Clare Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06020801246132751659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-86387050350088745202012-05-11T18:01:38.881+01:002012-05-11T18:01:38.881+01:00I'd written for a number of years for magazine...I'd written for a number of years for magazines so was used to sending work in and and editor making changes. So when it came to writing my picture books I saw them as a 'product' that had to be refined to fit the market it's aimed at. So those who see my work are other picture book writers I trust and my editor.Lynne Garnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05697330164705623835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-80222833086300527242012-05-11T11:26:33.243+01:002012-05-11T11:26:33.243+01:00Liz seems to have the right idea -working in bed (...Liz seems to have the right idea -working in bed (my favourite place to write/edit). I'm looking forward to reading all about it. Thanks for letting us in on your editing process...Juliet Clare Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06020801246132751659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-84763485361405453342012-05-11T10:38:57.212+01:002012-05-11T10:38:57.212+01:00Thank you, Jane. I didn't have time to cover g...Thank you, Jane. I didn't have time to cover giving feedback in this post but I do think it's incredibly valuable, too. <br /><br />Clare.Juliet Clare Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06020801246132751659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-73135329184549395102012-05-11T10:36:37.890+01:002012-05-11T10:36:37.890+01:00Thank you, Romelle.
Good luck in your writing,
All...Thank you, Romelle.<br />Good luck in your writing,<br />All the best,<br />Clare.Juliet Clare Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06020801246132751659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-33109030442375713492012-05-11T08:51:35.502+01:002012-05-11T08:51:35.502+01:00Terrific post, Clare, I think giving and getting f...Terrific post, Clare, I think giving and getting feedback is really important and I shall make a point of referring writers to this.Jane Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01361379190770989657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-33535661408926504432012-05-11T06:52:29.135+01:002012-05-11T06:52:29.135+01:00This is an excellent post, Juliet! I love the dia...This is an excellent post, Juliet! I love the diagram. I'll be bookmarking this post because it's a good one to share with friends who think writing a picture book is easy. There is a lot involved to get our manuscript to where it needs to be.Romelle Broashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11860032539164234533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-86080432761144832982012-05-10T23:27:48.419+01:002012-05-10T23:27:48.419+01:00Thanks, Alison.
I agree that it's not going ...Thanks, Alison. <br /><br />I agree that it's not going to be the most comfortable option but anyone who decides to submit a manuscript to an editor has decided to go down a route that won't always be comfortable. So we might as well get more used to those uncomfortable situations so we're prepared when we're in less than comfortable situations with editors...<br /><br />Clare.Juliet Clare Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06020801246132751659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-68781258476030719872012-05-10T22:50:18.081+01:002012-05-10T22:50:18.081+01:00Seminal advice, Clare, and thanks. Seeking out the...Seminal advice, Clare, and thanks. Seeking out the best feedback group/individual is likely to mean not going for the most comfortable option. Wise words too on hearing the points, but not necessarily agreeing with them and acting on them straight away or in fact at all.Alison Boylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15661814505803840167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-78350363282427302762012-05-10T19:47:27.635+01:002012-05-10T19:47:27.635+01:00Carrie, I think you are absolutely right. I've...Carrie, I think you are absolutely right. I've mentioned that a bit in the comments above (particularly in Malachy's I think?)but the post was so much too long when I started (and still pretty long now) so I had to cut loads out, including that. You've said it more eloquently than I did!<br />Thanks, Clare.Juliet Clare Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06020801246132751659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-57247030362986729782012-05-10T19:45:17.937+01:002012-05-10T19:45:17.937+01:00Thank you, Penny. Same here. I'm very pleased ...Thank you, Penny. Same here. I'm very pleased to be in a critique group with you!<br />ClareJuliet Clare Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06020801246132751659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-25882096629257670722012-05-10T18:57:18.336+01:002012-05-10T18:57:18.336+01:00OK. Liz lies in while I feed the dog and cats. T...OK. Liz lies in while I feed the dog and cats. Then I bring her a cup of tea and, if she's in the mood, my latest story / version. She takes up her red pen and goes for it. Then, when I've fed the ducks and hens, I bring her another cup of tea and we discuss it. In my next Picture Book Den blog (May 19) I'll show who, and how people, influenced my new picture book, The Snuggle Sandwich, in its seventeen year gestation.malachy doylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14428551785118345251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-31306879742979048302012-05-10T17:58:50.319+01:002012-05-10T17:58:50.319+01:00Great post, and very thorough. The one point I wou...Great post, and very thorough. The one point I would bring out in addition to all you've mentioned is the value of GIVING critiques as well as receiving them. I have learned so much simply by giving critiques to other writers, I think because you have to really focus not just on what you like or don't like about a manuscript but being articulate about WHY. I've found that when I practice finding the good and the bad in other writers' work, I have an easier time seeing it in my own.Carrie Finisonhttp://www.carriefinison.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-64787701141599595482012-05-10T17:17:17.444+01:002012-05-10T17:17:17.444+01:00Absolutely wonderful, Clare. A lot of great points...Absolutely wonderful, Clare. A lot of great points to reflect on and practice. I feel like the critiques I receive have been invaluable in my growth.Penny Parker Klostermannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15043861965501388155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-357974652062505132012-05-10T17:07:20.978+01:002012-05-10T17:07:20.978+01:00I agree, Paeony. Being a good writer doesn't n...I agree, Paeony. Being a good writer doesn't necessarily make you a good critiquer in the same way it won't necessarily make you great at school visits and children's entertainer. It's like good researchers at universities not necessarily being good lecturers. Our best lecturer by far was the one with the worst track record of research but he was inspirational and a fantastic teacher. I remember being gutted by seeing a really well-known professor whose work I loved give a lecture and he was terrible. But I do think that practising critiquing other people's work is really helpful for editing your own work.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Clare.Juliet Clare Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06020801246132751659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-26158676639081722022012-05-10T17:01:44.935+01:002012-05-10T17:01:44.935+01:00Thanks, Moira.Thanks, Moira.Juliet Clare Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06020801246132751659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-2232653577794111392012-05-10T17:00:49.261+01:002012-05-10T17:00:49.261+01:00Thank you, Malachy. You're right that you need...Thank you, Malachy. You're right that you need to cultivate the editor in your head. If I'd done a general post about joining a critique group, I'd have talked about the other side of it, too -*giving* feedback, which I think is extremely useful for cultivating the editor in your head. Most people I know who've joined crit groups have said that it's really helped with their self-editing because they're so actively critiquing someone else's manuscript. It's good for teaching you how to be more dispassionate about your own work and critiquing it more objectively and thoroughly.<br /><br />I think that you're in an excellent position having a great agent (we both have Celia -and James- Catchpole) so that you're getting feedback on your manuscripts before they go off to the editor. And you may be fortunate in having a fantastic critiquer for a wife (I know another author who only shows his wife and gets amazing feedback from her -and then shows his agent) AND your submissions aren't unsolicited. Many picture book writers, including published ones, don't have an agent who sees their work before it goes to an editor. Having said that, I do have an agent but I still like to get plenty of feedback first (with a few exceptions. There have been a couple of manuscripts that I've sent straight to my agent. <br /><br />I think it's a really interesting point about making things safe or samey. I guess the more confident you become, the less likely you are to be swayed by opinions about being 'safer'. In one of my books, it was the editor who decided it wasn't safe enough (where no one in my critique group had suggested that) and it did end up being 'safer' than I'd have gone for. I guess it could happen that people end up being more formulaic as their fellow critiquers have 'learnt' rules for writing a picture book. With increased confidence (which I've certainly got through my groups), I've been MORE inclined to break rules because I now feel confident enough in what the rules are...<br /><br />Finally, many editors now specifically want to see revisions by a writer before they decide whether they want to work with them. I've heard editors saying they want to see how well they think someone can work with them by taking on their feedback. I think that learning how to work with feedback from non-editors is incredibly valuable for this, too.<br /><br />I'm really intrigued now: does your wife give you specific feedback? I'd love to know how it works.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Clare.Juliet Clare Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06020801246132751659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-43204770575675476412012-05-10T16:35:04.962+01:002012-05-10T16:35:04.962+01:00Thanks, Addy. And glad you enjoyed the pictures!
C...Thanks, Addy. And glad you enjoyed the pictures!<br />Clare.Juliet Clare Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06020801246132751659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-24337647644232358672012-05-10T16:33:11.587+01:002012-05-10T16:33:11.587+01:00Thank you, Lorrie,
All the best, Clare.Thank you, Lorrie,<br />All the best, Clare.Juliet Clare Bellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06020801246132751659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-851943688131093902012-05-10T15:48:13.417+01:002012-05-10T15:48:13.417+01:00Great post, Clare. I'll direct new students to...Great post, Clare. I'll direct new students to it (before they have their first critique!).<br />I suspect good critiquers would also make good editors, and that some writers aren't necessarily good critiquers. Critiquing is a skill in it's own right.Paeony Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13129555451791248798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-15657575380947040322012-05-10T15:11:04.628+01:002012-05-10T15:11:04.628+01:00Thanks for a great post, Claire, which will be ver...Thanks for a great post, Claire, which will be very very useful to a lot of people. I love the pictures, too!Moira Butterfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17355420549929911500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-59106314420185049412012-05-10T14:39:40.735+01:002012-05-10T14:39:40.735+01:00As someone who, with rare exceptions, only shows m...As someone who, with rare exceptions, only shows my work-in-progress to my wife, my agent and then (hopefully) my editor, I found this fascinating, Claire. Getting other people's views on one's work can be really useful, especially in the early stages of one's writing career, but it's the editor in one's head that one needs to cultivate - there's only one person the story needs to totally satisfy and that's you, the writer. I suppose I'd be wary of too much input taking the quirkiness out. I love stories and writers with a very distinctive voice, which has to both come naturally and be developed and cherished. Is there a danger that too much input can make things too samey / too safe?malachy doylehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14428551785118345251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3758609568631190155.post-31926364199888445802012-05-10T14:13:04.019+01:002012-05-10T14:13:04.019+01:00Excellent words of advice, Clare - brilliant overv...Excellent words of advice, Clare - brilliant overview. <br />The pics were especially hilarious.Addy Farmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00450583537731030466noreply@blogger.com